What a stupid, stupid update. This punishes many good, average-sized dynasties just because of a few dynasties who shot up the rankings because they only had a few members. The emphasis on having as many members as possible (the logical way to get as many clicks as possible) is a bad idea, and here's why: it has "dumbed down" the competition between the dynasties. Now instead of trying to recruit quality clickers, you also just try to grab anyone that you can. Having good clickers matters, but so does having sheer numbers, which doesn't take any competitive skill at all.
The only thing that makes Yarold's fun is the competition, and this update just wrecked the competition. I'm cancelling the contests I was running for my dynasty, because what's the point? Having everyone raise their averages above 600 now matters a lot less then simply recruiting another 35 members. I might as well just leave my dynasty altogether and just log on once a day to earn some credits. The fun competition is gone.
And by the way, the only peasants that ever got kicked from MMC UBC were those who didn't click the 350 minimum. We never kicked anyone just to help our average, and we accepted anyone who wanted to join and let them stay all they way up until they didn't click the minimum. This update punishes the WRONG people. What a stupid change.
Reverse the update ASAP. It wasn't well thought-out.
I'm pretty much in agreement. I don't see the point, anymore.
[ Added: Mon Nov 17, 2008 2:33 pm ]
Quote:
Fine by me. One less small dynasty to compete with, who got big by stealing big-average people from other dynasties and took on very few newcomers.
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I don't see how they STOLE anyone, everyone came of their own free will, it's not our fault who they followed or why, and ftr, we didn't follow her back, either.
We took/take on newcomers every.day. So much to the point that I complained about the extreme newbs who clicked the first dynasty they saw and tried to join, never to return.
Mushpark--yes, about half of my post was my opinion, so it was pretty annoying to see you go through line by line and say which opinions you disagreed with. I consider that spamming since you already posted those exact opinions in a different thread. It is not constructive for me to post my opinions here, and for you to post your opinions elsewhere, and then for you to re-post your opinions here in response to my opinions. They are opinions, so if they don't agree, there is no point to re-posting your opinions over and over. Posting the same things in multiple places is spam.
Now, onto your arguments which had substance:
First, you acted like it was dumb to say that the update punished average-sized dynasties. You said to "define average." I am pretty sure that the word "average" has a well-agreed-upon definition. Look it up in a dictionary and you will find a definition. My post still makes a good point without having to define every word for you. My point was that dynasties like Unity, MMC UBC, MMC MOB, Untouchables, etc--average-sized dynasties which do a great job for their allies and emphasize quality--are being hurt. For instance, La Brute, which I think is a terrible ally due to all their negative credits and bad clickers, was ahead of all four of these dynasties today. You ask the question: "Who has the right to decide what size is right for a dynasty?" If you had thought it through, you would have realized that Yarold just did, by making 60 the "right" number. A dynasty of 30 amazing clickers might be able to do better than a dynasty of 60 terrible clickers, but for that 30-person dynasty, they can always do even better by adding another 30 members. Maybe not ALL of the "quality" has left, but there is certainly a much bigger emphasis on quantity over quality, and that takes about half of the skill out of the competition.
You then said that the new update helped newcomers who clicked well. Newcomers who click well do not need help. They can always find a home in MMC UBC. We accepted anyone and they were allowed to stay until they did not meet the minimum clicks. Even if they were kicked for eventually failing to click the minimum (which is ridiculously easy to do), they were always allowed to rejoin. And the minimum # of clicks was extremely low and easy to meet, I myself have met the minimum of 350 simply by logging in once a day and spending 5 minutes of time. Newcomers are welcome in MMC UBC, and always have been. This update was absolutely not needed to help newcomers. If the goal of this update was to help newcomers, it should have been done in such a way as to hurt dynasties who reject newcomers. Not just hurting all dynasties indiscriminitely!!
The next substantive thing that you said was "Hogwash. Try being an emp and deciding which dynasties to ally with. That takes lots of strategic skill." That IS a good point. However, not all of us can be emperors! For 99% of the people who play Yarold's, we don't get to have the competition of trying to be the best emperor and make the best alliances. In fact, with this new update, even LESS of the yarold's population will ever get to have the competition of making alliances, because the new update encourages having a few very large dynasties. So I can understand how the new update makes things fun for you, and the other emperors/kampaku, but for most of us, it does not.
***And how can you say that MMC UBC took on very few newcomers? That is an outright lie. Members of MMC UBC had actual FIGHTS with Jassej and Zvonimir because Jassej and Zvonimir absolutely refused to ever kick a joining peasant. We wanted to stop letting anyone join, and they told everyone in the dynasty: "Everyone gets a chance." And they stuck to it. Every person who joined was accepted, and every person who was accepted was allowed to stay until they didn't make the minimum clicks. If you ever claim again that MMC UBC ever rejected a single peasant, then I will call you out on that lie. We were NOT like those other dynasties who rejected newcomers with low averages. A newcomer with a 0 average was allowed to stay every day that he made only 350 clicks (again, extremely easy to do), and a longtime member with 600 average was kicked for not making the minimum clicks because her kids were sick. MMC UBC did not discriminate based off of dynasty averages. Yet this update hurts us along with those other dynasties who were "snobby." This update should have been done in such a way as to hurt the dynasties who reject newcomers. Instead, the update hurt dynasties indiscriminitely, even ones like UBC which accepted all newcomers. That is why this was a stupid update.
Then you said "NEWS FLASH. Requiring a minimum click rate helps your average." This is my fault for not being clear enough with my wording. When I wrote "kicked" people, I meant kicking people who tried to join our dynasty. So I apologize for the misunderstanding on that one, I can definitely see why you wrote "duh." But that wasn't what I originally meant by "kicked." My fault.
Summary: We have different opinions on whether Yarold's is now less fun. No need to keep arguing that, or to go line-by-line disagreeing with simple opinions. But I still think it is clear that this update was aimed at NetFreaks, and possibly Eternity and UBC, although as I said, UBC accepted every peasant who tried to join and DemonicJ claims that hardly anyone tried to join his dynasty. And so while this update does hurt "snobby" dynasties like NetFreaks (who, by the way, are GREAT allies), it also hurts regular-sized dynasties who were extremely welcoming to newcomers. Furthermore, it adds an emphasis to quantity instead of just quality, which, IN MY OPINION, ruins the competition.
Last edited by Kronia on Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:28 pm; edited 9 times in total
Fine by me. One less small dynasty to compete with, who got big by stealing big-average people from other dynasties and took on very few newcomers.
What do you want to say? That I've heard of other members dynasty stolen?
Mr Mushpark this is a serious accusation on my person and that is not properly!
THIS IS NOT TRUE !!!!!
I've never made a secret that UBC is a forum dynasty and that was a big advantage and every forum members could decide whether he comes to us or not! To play at Divan and PatroXXL forum are also members but have not us.
All were equipped with high average? From 13 members (1 day) not even half of average and had big, I can say with pride, was dreamsattown total beginner and was not only!
350 minimum click gave us probably brought up but you can also make 350 minimum, that is not forbidden!!
Sistem ranking until yesterday was bad because discrimination has great dynasty, from today are small and medium-sized dynasty discriminated against ...
My opinion is the Yarold makes a sistem where no discrimination, I want too much?
As far as I know, the ranking of your dynasty will from now on be calculated by the TOTAL amount of clicks, not the average. If you make more people peasant, yes, you will improve your average, but not the TOTAL amount clicks, so making people peasants doesn't bring you ANYWHERE.
As far as I know, the ranking of your dynasty will from now on be calculated by the TOTAL amount of clicks, not the average. If you make more people peasant, yes, you will improve your average, but not the TOTAL amount clicks, so making people peasants doesn't bring you ANYWHERE.
Or did I just understand things wrong?
No, you understood things correctly Dynasty average is now meaningless, and only total clicks matter. Because only total clicks matter, now it is very important simply to add members to your dynasties. Less quality, more quantity. We are debating whether it was a good idea to do that or not. Clearly I am of the opinion that it was not
Fine by me. One less small dynasty to compete with, who got big by stealing big-average people from other dynasties and took on very few newcomers.
MMC UBC is a month of existence of 18 new members (Peasant) made in shogune. that the 10 ordinary members have become a VIP in our dynasty.
I and Jassej we bought 40 000 credits that gave Peasant .. Every Peasant got me 100-200 credits .. Each member with a minus credit received from me 200 credits.
Who can say that the UBC got big by stealing big-average people from other dynasties and took on very few newcomers??
_________________ Proud Shogun MMC UBC Dinasty and Ex Kampaku Ex Shogun MMC MOB Dynasty
As far as I know, the ranking of your dynasty will from now on be calculated by the TOTAL amount of clicks, not the average. If you make more people peasant, yes, you will improve your average, but not the TOTAL amount clicks, so making people peasants doesn't bring you ANYWHERE.
Or did I just understand things wrong?
No, you understood things correctly Dynasty average is now meaningless, and only total clicks matter. Because only total clicks matter, now it is very important simply to add members to your dynasties. Less quality, more quantity. We are debating whether it was a good idea to do that or not. Clearly I am of the opinion that it was not
Okay, sorry, I only read the first 1,5 page, but because I'm in a hurry, I didn't have the time to read all the long stories.
Cause if you just have quantity and not quality you got no clicks.
yes, I said both are needed. But we went from a system where only quality was important to one that takes away some of the impact of quality for no good reason!
I understand that calculating based on total clicks will reward the dynasties that accept newcomers. But instead of hurting dynasties like UBC, which accepted every peasant who tried to join, why not just put a penalty on rejecting newcomers? Why do something that (in my opinion) makes the competition a lot less about skill?
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Dynasty average is now meaningless, and only total clicks matter. Because only total clicks matter, now it is very important simply to add members to your dynasties. Less quality, more quantity. We are debating whether it was a good idea to do that or not. Clearly I am of the opinion that it was not 
