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Balancing clicks done and received
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Bruno73 
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Age: 50
Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 57
Location: Nice, France
Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 5:26 pm   Balancing clicks done and received

With the new scoring system balancing clicks done and received has become a new issue for individual members as well as for dynasties in order to raise their MinAvg.

Ideally there should be as many clicks received than done. More clicks done and the Min(imum) is then equal to the number of clicks received. More clicks received and the Min is then equal to the number of clicks done.

Here are graphics for the top 16 dynasties showing the daily difference between total clicks received and done. Positive value means too many clicks received while negative value means not enough clicks received.

















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Bruno73
Last edited by Bruno73 on Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:03 am; edited 2 times in total  
 
     
eirien 
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 76
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 1:36 am   

Interesting...

Thanks for these.
 
     
Xazy 
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Location: Arizona, USA
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:15 am   

do these show just dynasty clicks, or is it all clicks?
 
     
Yarold 
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 2:20 pm   

the unreadable graph
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Jeanne 
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 7:50 pm   

Nice - did you knit that yourself Stan?
 
     
Bruno73 
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Location: Nice, France
Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 8:52 pm   

Xazy wrote:
do these show just dynasty clicks, or is it all clicks?


Total Clicks Received - Total Clicks Done (so all)
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Bruno73
 
     
Jeanne 
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Posted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:37 pm   

Well the numbers are not surprising.
Unless you are in a dynasty with 55-60 members that actually hs a chance to go somewhere .... why bother about score/balance? Why not go into a clicking frenzy and build up credits?
For most dynasties there's no incentive to even try and balance the score. Not to mention the many who doesn't understand the system.
 
     
Bruno73 
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Location: Nice, France
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 1:09 am   

Jeanne wrote:
Well the numbers are not surprising.
Unless you are in a dynasty with 55-60 members that actually has a chance to go somewhere ....


The dynasty size argument is pointless here. As everyone can see, there are big dynasties with negative (gained/given=received/done) balance and small ones with positive balance.

I really don't know why you're complaining all the time about the big dynasties... what are you waiting to make yours grow if there is an advantage?


Quote:
why bother about score/balance?


Because it reflects the fairness of the link exchange process.

Quote:
Why not go into a clicking frenzy and build up credits?


Because this is nonsense. Built up credits are totally of no use as far as link exchange is concerned. Credits are made to have links clicked and nothing else.

By the way, note that if you build up credits, you don't show your links and you prevent the others from clicking you frenzy... and then they cannot show you their links in return. Therefore, building up credits is blocking the link exchanges.


Quote:
For most dynasties there's no incentive to even try and balance the score.


What are they waiting for? My graphics can help them to realize how they are doing good or not, if they should show more links or not. That was my purpose and my wish is of course to make my allies balance their clicks done and received, for our common interest.

Quote:
Not to mention the many who doesn't understand the system.


Maybe this forum is a good place to explain it? Or you could send mails to your members.
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Bruno73
Last edited by Bruno73 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 6:14 am; edited 2 times in total  
 
     
Jeanne 
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 3:39 am   

No the size argument is not pointless - it is a fact that if there is no goal to fight for then there's very little incentive to make a high score. You must have seen that statement a lot of times here in forum, there are many who doesn't care about score or rank and for most of the dynasties it is a fact they have no part in the competition for rank.

I am not complaining about large dynasties I am complaining about the unfair system that only allows large dynasties to compete.

What will it take to get through to you that some dynasties does not want to be large but still would like to have an option to compete if they so wish? We are many who actually enjoy being in a smaller dynasty, who has chosen a smaller dynasty rather than a larger ...tho we would like to be able to compete.

For most newbies or teenagers building up credits is a rush - they have struggled on main to stay positive clicking members with a huge amount of credits - then they join a dynasty and whoa they suddenly have +credits and they can build up ..... that's more fun for them than keeping an eye on the balance of done/given clicks.

I show my 1 real link all day long and some of my fake links in dynasty when I have clicked more than received - I balance ...in fact most days I have received more than done and my post was not about me - it was my view of the score system and it's effects.

As for watching your graphics to realize if they are doing good or not ....

Why should they want to "do good" as long as they get their links clicked and stay positive ... why want more?

Explaining the system in forum? you know that only a handful of members per dynasty read the forum.
I believe my members do understand the system, they have received mails for every change - again: I wasn't talking about me or my dynasty.

Being a member here should be about having fun - not about watching graphics and balancing scores - that's a job not a game.
 
     
Bruno73 
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Location: Nice, France
Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:08 am   

The new scoring system says: "be clicked as much as you click".

It is easy to understand for anyone.

Either you care and try, or you don't care and you can build up credits and complete less link exchanges. That is your right too. But sorry you cannot anymore build up credits AND be ranked at the top. Just because this kind of behaviour is against link exchange. It is moreover cheap and selfish ("I wanna click tons of links but I won't show mine").

As you gave no further argument, I maintain that the size argument is pointless regarding the clicks balance (i.e. the subject of this topic). Each member is individually concerned. Dynasties are concerned too, whatever their size, if they feel concerned about it.

Regarding the competition, the new scoring system is not to blame as it didn't affect much the rankings, did it?

Now if you'd like a competition where all dynasties have the same chance, why not but this would be the death of the large dynasties and for sure nobody would accept and train newbies anymore. Is that what you want?

Regarding my graphics, nobody forces you to watch them. You're talking about having fun, but you're talking about competition too. Graphics are for those interested and having fun in the competition.
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Bruno73
Last edited by Bruno73 on Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total  
 
     
Ferrari 
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Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 5:20 am   

Jeanne wrote:
Well the numbers are not surprising.
Unless you are in a dynasty with 55-60 members that actually hs a chance to go somewhere .... why bother about score/balance? Why not go into a clicking frenzy and build up credits?
For most dynasties there's no incentive to even try and balance the score. Not to mention the many who doesn't understand the system.


Sorry Jeanne if my dynasty dos wrong (please tell me) i totally not understand the new system, I think my first shogun (left hand) niinamaa Understand a lot and she try to explained me but still I am so confused.
The scoring system for the dynastys places i also not understand, we where 5th and now 4th but why? i have no idea.
Sorry i know this sounds very blond, but i have a excuse.... I am blond
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Jeanne 
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 3:33 am   

LOL Marga - you should ask Bruno since the system is his idea, thank you for showing him that it is not just plain to understand for everyone :razz:

Bruno: you act like a fanatic idealist - you will not understand anybody who doesn't see things like you do so I find it pointless to try and re-explain what I mean - I know I have answered most of your arguments already in other posts and I wont repeat myself only say this: RMV had 80 members and all dyns had newbies when we had Dyn-ave as score/ranking system.


Edit: Ok I am a woman ... I can't shut up :razz:

You can never get a 1 click for a click.

Some members come here with 1 minicity link. Others come with 5 Valenths links. To make an even exchange the minicity link holder should make 4 fake links? Is that fair to ask of anybody just to fulfill your dream of an even exchange rate?
 
     
DemonicJ 
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:17 am   

You have all walked around the (what I think is) big flaw is this system. If everyone tried to balance there will be less links to click! All those receiving more clicks than they click, to balance, would have to show less links!! Those that can click more than they receive, still havent changed (the credit hoarders). So as we go further down the track & the more people try to balance the less links become available.
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Jeanne 
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:48 am   

No I said that in another thread a while ago: Less links are shown, even tho I do make most clicks I only show half my links now but still balance done/received.

Another thing wrong is the members with only 1 link who are being made out as "immoral" when clicking what is before them and called "bad exchangers" - I can't believe this was the idea with an exchange site?
 
     
Ferrari 
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:53 am   

I show more than i click, Is that a problem? I think its good for my members and allies they can click.
All links my members click is good for my dynasty? or not?
Or is it better to find a ballance and show less?
Please tell me Jeanne.
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DemonicJ 
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 5:58 am   

Jeanne wrote:
No I said that in another thread a while ago: Less links are shown, even tho I do make most clicks I only show half my links now but still balance done/received.

Another thing wrong is the members with only 1 link who are being made out as "immoral" when clicking what is before them and called "bad exchangers" - I can't believe this was the idea with an exchange site?


If they have 1 link & they balance, why would they be bad exchangers? I would think that would be the sign of a good exchanger, balancing, regardless of how many links.

Im now balancing my exchange's but its at the cost of showing extra links as often as I used to.
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Do it Legit. You break the rules, don't expect a pleasant outcome

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Jeanne 
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Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:32 am   

I am talking about the 1 link holder who click more than he/she get clicked not with the intention to horde credits but just clicking the links that appear while showing his/her link.

I used to show all my extra links limit 10, 2-3 times every HH - now I rarely show more than 4-5 of my links and I balance - most days I receive more than I click!

Marga: The score system say you only get score for the lowest number of your clicks done/received - so if you show more than you click you are loosing credits but yes feeding your dynasty and allies (as one of those I say thank you :) )
Last edited by Jeanne on Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:37 am; edited 1 time in total  
 
     
eirien 
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Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 76
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 6:34 am   

DemonicJ wrote:

Im now balancing my exchange's but its at the cost of showing extra links as often as I used to. [/color][/b]


Yes, both Jeanne and I have said this before in the forums - this system eventually will discourage putting up more links. I said that during the week when I'm at work I can only click the equivalent of having just one link in Dynasty. The HHs are done by the time I get home and I'm not in the right timezone to get to click people before some of them go neg.

Therefore, even though I have the credits to support more links, why should I show more links than I can click? I'm still waiting on an answer for that one. ;)

[/i]
 
     
Annie 
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Age: 48
Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 25
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:50 am   

It is a viscious circle the new rules.

I must wait for others to show links BEFORE I can show extras.

If only a few people show extra links, I cannot afford to show mine.

However if everyone thinks like this then it's correct, overall there will be less links.

Saying that, I think with RMV and La Brute trying to balance their overall dynasty stats and the big players showing like crazy (big thanks :) ) this has not been a problem yet.

When their dynasty stats are even and they do not need to show more like crazy I am not sure what will happen?

EDIT: Sorry I forgot to say, I really like the graphs Bruno, they are very insteresting so thanks for working hard on them.
 
     
bodisson-2 
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Joined: 22 Mar 2009
Posts: 17
Posted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 1:14 pm   

Ok Annie but I think we can have enough experience to know what we can do and to anticipate to go right for some hours.
Do not make the hand break just after reset :grin:
Difficulty is to precisly balance at the end (depend of our disponibility near before reset)

Quote:
So as we go further down the track & the more people try to balance the less links become available.

Maybe we can try to do a little more each days in order to avoid the steep slope(I hate roller coaster :oops: )
However , I don't think september update change anything , it's just easier to point on and talk about now.[/quote]
 
     
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