[jassej]

[Jeanne]

Well Jassej you keep saying you are against the feeder dynasties and you only do this because others do .... WHO is doing it other than UBC?

You are the only one having a feeder dynasty and may now be the reason for even more restrictions to this site.

I urge you to close it down and get your members back in UBC to end all this now.

[Ferrari]

I agree with Jeanne, jassej just stop it, than we all are happy again.

[supergeorge216]

I hate to be the one that bursts everyone's idealistic views on harmony, happiness and that everyone can come out of this a winner, but if the system mod is addressing this now, simply removing a feeder dynasty and a slap on the hand is not sufficient.

I do agree that if any restrictions are in place, there will be a detrimental effect, either to the individual user or dynasty group. Do keep an open mind that this thread is not to please everyone and since such action has already been committed - and have been committed in the past - there is no turning back and it looks like something will be done at the expense of our priviledges. Who can predict 2 months from now if another dynasty, with zero knowledge of this thread, uses the same tactic again?

===

Jeanne, as a rebuttal to your concern to (1) dynasty averages and (2) members joining another dynasty will have to take a break after leaving a dynasty, it does not matter to me if one person's pride is hurt over the greater good of the site. I believe these two points are controllable by the user themselves. If you want to maintain your average, stay in the dynasty. If you don't want to have to take a break, stay in the dynasty. My frame of mind is to not prevent the movement of users, but to ensure that some penalty is in place to combat the issue of feeder dynasties.

In addition, the whole problem stems from certain individuals abusing the system. A feeder dynasty is just a group of these bad individuals. So rather of thinking of feeder dynasties ruining our fun, it is the people that are involved in such action that has ruined the fun for us themselves.

Going back to your response on the delay of transfers. Yes, I do agree that the credit usage can be calculated, but my proposition can work against a feeder dynasty as it would take an extraordinary amount of purchases or credit gathering to fund and work such a process through the system.

1) Time delay. Can the main dynasty afford to transfer a large sum of credits to another member/dynasty and stay positive before the transfer of credits is complete?

2) Gathering credits. If a dynasty is funding another dynasty, the most obvious thing to do is click, click, click and stop showing Happy Hour/extra links. This action will obviously make the other dynasty's angry and potentially force a break in alliance. If a large dynasty becomes a 1-link per member dynasty, what is stopping other dynasties from just using multiple smaller dynasties to cause the same effect?

3) Purchasing credits. This is possibly the only way I think of to fund a feeder dynasty properly in my proposal. But DemonicJ brought up a great point and persuaded me that purchases should work similarly to transfers. The positive from the point of funding feeder dynasties from buying credits is that the main dynasty can continue to function normally, but will have to purchase in large amounts to keep the feeder dynasties consistently fed. How economical will this be? If someone is rich enough to pull this off and 'maintain' this, I will give them #1 status.

Stan should not be against this as he is getting funded for the time being and it is at that 'exact' moment when the feeder dynasty makes the main dynasty reach the top we propose either: (a) higher price for credit purchases or (b) some sort of profit-sharing model where Stan can divide up the purchases into credits for all us lessor dynasties. The purchaser of the credits still receives all their credits in full when they are buying to fund their feeder dynasty, but Stan can be giving and randomly give hard-working dynasties, as what I like to be referred to as a 'bonus,' for playing fair.

This from a pure evil standpoint . I want to see a dynasty funded purely from cash reach the top. Once they reach the top by doing it in an unfair way, I would do everything in my power to see that they fall down hard and lose more than just their ranking in the process (e.g. In this case, the offending dynasty loses cash). Stan gains cash, feeder dynasty receives their credits, we all get funding from Stan's extra cash, and then pull the plug and the top dynasty falls. I haven't worked out all the specifics in my mind yet, but I love this idea more and more.

Disclaimer: Do pay heed that I remember enemies very well .

===

Jeanne, I do not understand how the ranking of dynasties work completely. I initially thought ranking was due to average clicks per day.

Could you explain how if you take a dynasty average down to zero, dynasties would be prevented from feeder dynasties? My argument is if a dynasty is only worried about being #1 and using feeder dynasties, they are already sacrificing dynasty average for total clicks.

Personally, I believe dynasty average only conveys if a dynasty is of high quality and efficiency. The reason why feeder dynasties are succeeding is because brute force can win you a high ranking. Which brings back to an earlier comment you made. Change the way in which dynasties are ranked.

I can think of such ranking system:

Split the dynasties into tiers depending on their dynasty average.
Tier I = 100, tier 2 = 200, etc. The higher the tier, the more prestigious the dynasty is as the dynasty average evokes a sense of better clicks per member ratio.

Within each tier, rather than base rankings on total clicks, take a ratio by dividing the dynasty average into the total clicks for the day (e.g. 21000 total clicks / 300 dynasty average = 70:1). The lower this ratio is, the higher you will be ranked as it attributes to power (total clicks) and efficiency (dynasty average).

===

Taking a step back, I would be interested if the Stan, the mod himself, explain to us specifically what is considered a feeder dynasty. Maybe there is something I missed as from my understanding of the system, I believe i have a sufficient, but not perfect plan that I am willing to compromise at the expense of the group.

[Jeanne]

I did mean the click average set to 0 since it is the click average that decides the rank order at present.

The 5 day penalty: you yourself was in a dynasty that suddenly folded - is it fair that you and your fellow members should be forced to wait 5 days before joining a new dynasty? What about mergers how would that happen?

For myself I can only say if it comes to where I can no longer play the dynasty game with contests and rewards I don't see what I should be doing here anymore - I came to find clicks for my minicity but as many others have pointed out - I only get a handful from this site - most from automated less effort and time consuming exchanges.

[jassej]

I do not know if my English is so bad or no one read my post?
I still write now and not more because I like to click better than I write.

[supergeorge216]

Jeanne, you make it sound like 5 days is 5 years . Rules are not meant to be negotiated once it's in place. In my case, if mergers happen, they wait the standard 5 days. If something unpredictable happens in a dynasty, such as a dynasty folding, those users will have to wait 5 days before being able to be accepted by a dynasty. I'm am not suggesting that mod's be used to bypass the rule as: (1) mod's getting unnecessary mail requests, (2) subjectivity of each situation.

===

When click average goes down to 0. It would only be a temporary thing then... Take the problem away by enforcing a rule and everyone has to play by it. I want to get away from fights like, "Why did you take my dynasty away?"

Jeanne, your suggestion would go back to the realm of what I saw in the first page: Allow feeder dynasties to continue, but mod can nuke any feeder dynasties under their discretion. But rather than taking away dynasties, you're taking away ranking. Subjectivity is causing this problem to escalate.

===

I'm beginning to enjoy how reason/logic is starting to shine through .

[Bruno73]

I've just and only read the first page of this thread (too lazy to read the rest) but here are some thoughts of mine:

- before ruling or forbidding "feeder dynasties" one must properly define what they are exactly, and this is far from obvious.

- The number of allies is not a good criterion. (instead of one N-member feeder dynasty you can make N 1-member allied feeder dynasties...)

- Forbidding transfers between non allied members is not a solution neither because a member could go into the source dynasty to get credits, then go to the satellite dynasty to be clicked.

- I see no simple rules to avoid such tricks.

- I see absolutely no difference between how Real Maxi VIP and O.F.Y. worked. I think they are the same and should have been treated the same way.

- Jassej lies when claiming that Maxi refused to ally with UBC. The truth is that he just refused to transfer the necessary credits. So he complained (as usual) about Maxi and eventually did exactly the same with O.F.Y. (lol)

- If you'd like Yarold to work more sanely, just count the clicks received as well as the clicks done, then feeder dynasties wouldn't be that useful anymore. (see this topic )

- Feeder dynasties appeared only because of Yarold's scoring system that counts only the clicks done, that is the rule to change, if any.

[Wolverines]

[Ella]

[supergeorge216]

I am really surprised that the simplest of solutions was not even brought up. Whether it is due to greed or lack of trust, I don't know? But read on.

===

Let me summarize the thread so far:

1) We have voices from Moblets, MMC Mob, J4F and Net Freaks that do not accept the actions of feeder dynasties.

2) RMV is not currently allied with UBC, but has shown great displeasure in such actions.

3) I am not certain on LaBrutes' stance.

===

What if I told you that there is a way where the larger dynasties could solve this problem themselves and Stan would not have to put in more rules in place?

Would you do it MMC Mob?
Would you do it J4F?
Would you do it NF?
As I am suggesting this, I would work hard to get the Moblets on board (This will be the same answer for all the following qusetions).


Now my second question would be, if you do want to hear this idea, are you willing to sacrifice some of your click totals?

Would you do it MMC Mob?
Would you do it J4F?
Would you do it NF?

===

Potential solution to pressure feeder dynasties to be stopped:

EDIT: I do apologize that the UBC has to be used as the main example as they are the current dynasty that is using feeder dynasties, but this is an extreme example in theory.


If there is a yes to both of those questions, then the best way to solve feeder dynasties is to UNALLY the dynasty that is using feeder dynasties. In this case, unally UBC.

This thread is full of hypocrites (I am one by association as we are allied to UBC) because everyone is saying, "DO NOT ALLOW FEEDER DYNASTIES TO CONTINUE." But by simply having an alliance with UBC, your actions are saying that, "IT IS OKAY FOR THEM TO USE FEEDER DYNASTIES."

Why would this work?

1) Whoever is using feeder dynasties will not receive support from the larger dynasties. How many smaller dynasties actually participate in Happy Hour or show extra links?

2) From our point of view. It is much easier to find many small dynasties to replace UBC's 50 members than it is for UBC to replace nearly 200 allies.

===

Are the members of this site responsible enough to police themselves?

RMV, Mob, J4F, and NF, as you 4 are the largest dynasties that have said you do not accept feeder dynasties, I encourage open communication right now and here in this thread. Show Stan that you can solve this yourself and work with UBC!

If all the dynasties are unwilling to work together to fight against feeder dynasties, rules and restrictions will be put in place. The only people to blame would be yourselves.

[jassej]

[supergeorge216]

Exactly jessej!!! I am very impressed that you picked up on my idea very quickly and you proved another point:

It looks like there is ZERO trust among the larger dynasties.

If all the dynasties could work together and solve the problems themselves, Stan would not have to create this thread!

===

Now I pose another question:

jassej, leader of UBC, has already stated that he will STOP using feeder dynasties if all the larger dynasties agree and work together.

It does not matter whether feeder dynasties appear in the future because if it does, UBC and whoever agrees to this pact will use force/pressure on the dynasty that is using a feeder to stop.

Are the dynasties willing to do that?

[Wolverines]

that wont work as a new dyansty could come along at anytime and start using a feeder again and become #1 dynasty....you saying that the other major dynasty wouldnt ally with them that is fine...we would be in this same spot in a couple of months either someone would go against their word or a new alliance would enlist 10 "feeder alliance" to become #1 and everyone would be mad again...just need to stop transfers and buying of credit for others

[bluebell_rose]

that is true. A team could recruit lots of people from sites like adoptable pet sites, and offer to them, you'll raise their pets in exchange for being them being in a feeder dyn and clicking a few 100 each day not to raise the radar as long as they show 10 links 24/7 . And the dyn aiming to be top could just feed those dyns they made.

[sks]

i really don't understand why, when some problem occurs, there are always so many ppl asking for more restrictions...... it's always the same: someone finds a pass through the rules to help his dynasty, then some ppl jump up asking a forbidding of this and that and finally the rules are changed. even though the problem is always caused by a small group of members (and always and only members of dynasty/ies), changed rules "punish" thousands of members regardless they have ever been in a dynasty or not. so now we for example have to wait till reset with changing/adding/removing link(s) or to have limited space for links in profiles.... and now i see there are ppl here asking for even more mass punishment................ do you really think this is the right way?

but to the topic:
my suggestion is simple, just allow the links to be displayed only in the link exchange page. in my opinion it will fix problems with "feeder" dynasties (it is a little different to show 10 links all the day for 60 ppl or for 6.000 ppl, esp. when part of those 6k are "enemies") without more restrictions, changing rules or so. maybe even the old restrictions could have been removed then. also this will hurt (if) only members in dynasties, not all others having nothing to do with this.... and as a bonus this will fix also the problem with the link exchange section which is more and more useless.
other possibility i see, is to end dynasty competition completely, letting the dynasties to be just the "discussion clubs for friends" or so... because dynasties just cause problems and hurt the exchange of links here at all.

thanks for reading.

[Wolverines]

i really dont see a problem with so-called feeder dynasties...who is to say RMV is better than J4F or J4f is better than RMV? if you want it stopped credit transfer needs to go....if you dont then who cares who has the highest dynasty average or clicks per day....does that really matter emps if everyone in your dynasty is getting their clicks they need for their games or are you just concerned about being #1 dynasty and not concerned about your people clicks for their game?

[DemonicJ]

[Ella]

Back to supergeorge216 (and copying + adding answer Jassej's list):

What if I told you that there is a way where the larger dynasties could solve this problem themselves and Stan would not have to put in more rules in place?

Would you do it MMC Mob?
Would you do it J4F?
Would you do it NF? Yes
Would you do it RMV?
Would you do it MMC UBC? YES whan all others dynasty say too yes!
Would you do it The Moblets?

Quote:

Now my second question would be, if you do want to hear this idea, are you willing to sacrifice some of your click totals?

I don't understand that question.

[DaBabes City]