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dyn ave

Do you want change in dynasty aves calculation?
Yes
34%
 34%  [ 24 ]
No
57%
 57%  [ 40 ]
Dunno/Dont care/Whatever
8%
 8%  [ 6 ]
Voted : 70
Total Votes: 70

Author Message
mph10 
Gamer Deity

Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 69
Posted: Tue Aug 19, 2008 6:16 pm   

Rebecca wrote:
Hmmm, I guess there should be a rule banning happy hour then, and more than one link, because that certainly does "manipulate averages".


ye lets do that, i only have one, and people who aren't in the time zone and actually sleep get pushed below those who join in with "happy hour"


i will not vote on this until a somebody posts a thread of the current system for calculation regarding dynasty averages, and also a rough idea of possible changes...

[ Added: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:26 pm ]
i propose that averages exclude holiday periods or something

if someone isn't able to click at all over a period of time, they could set holiday mode, meaning their average does not drop severely from no internet access
 
     
Darrel 
Gamer Legend

Age: 27
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 188
Location: Bulgaria
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:35 pm   

mph10 wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
Hmmm, I guess there should be a rule banning happy hour then, and more than one link, because that certainly does "manipulate averages".


ye lets do that, i only have one, and people who aren't in the time zone and actually sleep get pushed below those who join in with "happy hour"


i will not vote on this until a somebody posts a thread of the current system for calculation regarding dynasty averages, and also a rough idea of possible changes...

[ Added: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:26 pm ]
i propose that averages exclude holiday periods or something

if someone isn't able to click at all over a period of time, they could set holiday mode, meaning their average does not drop severely from no internet access


No, this about the banning of the Happy Hour is no longer needed.....already there are too much updates that make Happy Hour inpossible, because if someone wants to show links only a selected time of the day, he/she will have to wait one day, during which he would lose a terrible amount of credits (if he/she is not a VIP cause non-Vip's hidden link is vissible in History). I tried this and lost 1000 credits for nothing! Now I can't make this credits again cause now people are looking for EVERY possible link to help their Dynasty.


But about the Holiday counting, I agree totally :grin: although perhaps it would be impossible to make it...maybe a button in which you tick when you are on a Vacation and while it is ticked the Person Ave will not drop, may be a way.
 
     
Metalteo 
Site Admin


Helped: 14 times
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 1391
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:40 pm   

Why do you want to waste your credits on links you don't receive real clicks for anyway.
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Ferrari 
Gamer God


Helped: 2 times
Age: 56
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 1937
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 3:48 pm   

Darrel wrote:
mph10 wrote:
Rebecca wrote:
Hmmm, I guess there should be a rule banning happy hour then, and more than one link, because that certainly does "manipulate averages".


ye lets do that, i only have one, and people who aren't in the time zone and actually sleep get pushed below those who join in with "happy hour"


i will not vote on this until a somebody posts a thread of the current system for calculation regarding dynasty averages, and also a rough idea of possible changes...

[ Added: Tue Aug 19, 2008 7:26 pm ]
i propose that averages exclude holiday periods or something

if someone isn't able to click at all over a period of time, they could set holiday mode, meaning their average does not drop severely from no internet access


No, this about the banning of the Happy Hour is no longer needed.....already there are too much updates that make Happy Hour inpossible, because if someone wants to show links only a selected time of the day, he/she will have to wait one day, during which he would lose a terrible amount of credits (if he/she is not a VIP cause non-Vip's hidden link is vissible in History). I tried this and lost 1000 credits for nothing! Now I can't make this credits again cause now people are looking for EVERY possible link to help their Dynasty.


But about the Holiday counting, I agree totally :grin: although perhaps it would be impossible to make it...maybe a button in which you tick when you are on a Vacation and while it is ticked the Person Ave will not drop, may be a way.


Darrel, you can just set extra links for happy hour as long as you wish!!
Will you just 15 minutes set 10 extra links than you add 10 links for 15 minutes and after the 15 minutes you remove the 10 links.
The only thing what is changed is :!: watch out :!: you can in those 10 slots not again new links adding, you must wait till reset.
But you have 14 slots, so your regular link who is the whole day in dynasty, you can just let it where it is.
just use the other slots for happy hour.

♥ Ferrari ♥
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Darrel 
Gamer Legend

Age: 27
Joined: 11 Jun 2008
Posts: 188
Location: Bulgaria
Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 5:45 am   

Understand, but I just tried to put one link and it says "changing to new" and will apear after the reset, wouldn't it?
 
     
jennielynn 
Gamer God
Trying My Best


Helped: 4 times
Age: 42
Joined: 05 Jun 2008
Posts: 295
Location: Wichita, KS USA
Posted: Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:33 pm   

Darrel wrote:
Understand, but I just tried to put one link and it says "changing to new" and will apear after the reset, wouldn't it?


Correct.
 
     
MUSHpark 
Gamer Legend

Helped: 1
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 181
Posted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 10:57 pm   

OK, nobody has posted on this thread for a week, but I've been referred here from another question about dynasty averages so I presume it is still the correct place to ask about changing the dynasty average calculation.

Currently there are TWO running averages taken. First, dynasty members personal averages are taken into account with a 9*oldave + clicks today = newave.

You have to click at least 10 higher than your current ave for it to increase, so even if you click 400 forever you will only get a 391 personal average.

THEN after this calculation, for the dynasty, the new dynasty average is based on member averages, not based on member clicks that day. So even if you have a dynasty full of people all clicking 400, their personal 391 averages are what will go into the dynasty average calculation and it will be no better than 382.

Currently MMC Mob has 384 average which means that their members have really probably been clicking 402 every day for a while. :roll:

Also the change in averages means you can click 0 for very long period of time and still keep a high average. The "Taking on the Average" dynasty has had 0 clicks for several days now, but their dynasty average only drops by 2 each day because member averages were high to start with.

You can have the following silliness:

Today MMC Mob has a 384 average. That means dynasty member averages are at least 393 (by math shown above). So what would happen if everybody in MMC Mob clicked exactly 0 links today? The member averages would drop by 10% to 353. But then the dynasty average would assume everyone clicked 353 today and would only drop by 10% of (384-353) or 381. So 0 clicks ALL day and dynasty average drops only by about 1%.

Let's say MMC mob stopped clicking for 4 days. That is no clicks at all! Their daily averages would be:
Day 1: 381
Day 2: 375
Day 3: 367
Day 4: 357

They would still be in the lead even with zero clicks!

Another problem with the current method is that it makes it less likely for dynasties to want new members because no matter how good that new member clicks they bring a 0 average in, and there is no way to get higher than a 0 average without being in a dynasty to start with!

Say you have a dynasty with 9 people who all have a 250 average and do 250 clicks every day to maintain it. Then you get a new member with 0 average. They do super well and click 500 their first day.

New member personal average (9*0 + 500) / 10 = 50

Dynasty average input to formula 300*9 + 50 = 275

Dynasty average (9*300 + 275) / 10 =298 (edited to correct math)

So dynasty has 9 people maintaining 300. New member clicks DOUBLE the dynasty average and what happens? Dynasty average goes down by 2.

This does not make sense!!!

Please reopen the discussion on changing dynasty average to fix these issues. :)
Last edited by MUSHpark on Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:32 am; edited 1 time in total  
 
     
Metalteo 
Site Admin


Helped: 14 times
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 1391
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:17 am   

Quote:
Dynasty average (9*300 + 275) / 10 =288


9x300= 2700
2700 + 275 = 2975
2975/10 = 297.5

rounded up it would be 298 not 288.

Now when you do the whole calculation for a 60 member dynasty, you'll see that the effecft can be neglected.

Not to mention that only in theory a dynasty will have members all with a 300 avg. (yes I know you said 250 before.)

Another effect on this is when someone with an high average doesn't click for a day their own personal average will drop some, but they will still count for an high average in the dynasty calculation. Afteral why should the formula forget all the clicks that have been done on the days before. It wouldn't be an average anymore if it did that.
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MUSHpark 
Gamer Legend

Helped: 1
Joined: 16 Mar 2008
Posts: 181
Posted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 12:38 am   

Metalteo wrote:
rounded up it would be 298 not 288.

Thank you for correcting my math.

It still means that you can have more clicks than your dynasty average and your average can still go down.

Metalteo wrote:
Now when you do the whole calculation for a 60 member dynasty, you'll see that the effecft can be neglected.


Yes, the bigger your dynasty the smaller the effect, and that gives more weight (literally!) to building a bigger dynasty. It is probably a good thing to reward dynasty size somehow.

I still think it is not right to penalize dynasties (no matter how small the penalty) for accepting newbies. But that is just my opinion, and I suppose others may differ.
 
     
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