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Closed by: Ecco
Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:24 pm
Jeanne + rules
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Yarold 
Site Admin


Helped: 12 times
Age: 37
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 765
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 6:41 pm   Jeanne + rules

Hello members!


Today empress Jeanne was banned by one of admins for writing in transfers note something not nice about admins for 3 days.

After long discussion in our staff group we made decision on 2 things:
1) On one hand we know that our rules didn't point which elements of site we exactly check, but we looked at all data available to us. They were made in hope that it will enough to stop all fights. On the other side we know that idea in rules to stop fights is widely know to everyone.
From that decision to reduce ban till 13 was born.

2) To prevent future problems of what and where is allowed; rule 7 was updated.

* I also have to add that admins dont have ability to read your private messages (and this post is about note next to transfers)
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thepossum1 
Gamer God


Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 241
Location: North Carolina, USA
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 9:34 pm   

I do not want to be misunderstood--I am not trying to fuel any dispute, but I DO have some questions pertaining to this situation.

I had always assumed that the transfer notes were private on the order of mail--only the sender & recipient were able to see them. Neither, to my knowledge, was "in the open" for any others to see unlike our dynasty page short notes. I have to wonder how many other users here were under the same impression?

This new enlightenment is a little disturbing. This incident was not "out for all to see flaming", yet Jeanne was banned, albeit a shortened ban. THEN rule #7 was updated. Normally, one gets a warning before a ban and particularly since the rule wasn't clarified until AFTER Jeanne was banned, this seems like extraordinary harshness.

Now that the rule has been clarified, everyone is on notice that only mail is truly private. Now all can take steps to make sure that they do not overstep the bounds since all are now aware what they are.
 
     
Miryana 
n00b

Age: 44
Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 2
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 10:56 pm   

I agree with thepossum, i also thought that it was private...i really had no idea "you" would also read those notes. And i really don't think it's ok to give someone a ban and then change/update a rule and then give an explanation on the forum. Everyone should get a warning before they get a ban..... that is the nice and correct way to do this.
 
     
turdkey
[Deleted]

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:01 am   

Obviously for Jeanne to have broken the rules it would have taken a rule to breach but none existed until after the ban therefore Jeanne is guilty of nothing. To punish someone , on what appears on the surface to be a whim, is immoral.

May I ask why admins read transfer notes without the senders being made aware they were not private communications?
 
     
Tevie 
Hardcore Gamer


Age: 41
Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Texas
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:43 am   

I would also like to point out that the transfer note was written to me. We had been discussing many things over IM's and Jeanne told me that the minimum credit transfer was changed and we decided to check out what it was now at. Jeanne and I talk about a lot of things and many different sites. The comment about the Admins was Admins in general. It made no reference to any particular site. Believe it or not the views she expressed there actually express my views on another game site I play's Admins.

Again her note was 3 words long and did not specify an admin or a site. The note was to me and I didn't find anything wrong with it, did not pass it on, it in no way caused a fight. But your actions have it seems.

As others have said one is not normally punished after a rule is made for 'breaking' it before the rule is made. Now we know ya'll read private messages.

Everyone be careful what you write in Mail if they don't like it they will change the rule and Ban you!

This is the message you are sending.
 
     
Alba 
Gamer God
Dark Side Empress


Age: 54
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 524
Location: Spain
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:49 am   

Tevie wrote:
Now we know ya'll read private messages.
Everyone be careful what you write in Mail if they don't like it they will change the rule and Ban you!
This is the message you are sending.



Yarold wrote:
* I also have to add that admins dont have ability to read your private messages (and this post is about note next to transfers)



I think that the message that Yarold is sending is enough clear.
Please, don't try confuse our users
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Tevie 
Hardcore Gamer


Age: 41
Joined: 09 Sep 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Texas
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:47 am   

That is until you change that rule. That's all I am saying. If you ban people and then change the rule once, what stops you from doing it again.
 
     
Yarold 
Site Admin


Helped: 12 times
Age: 37
Joined: 12 Oct 2003
Posts: 765
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:07 am   

I have to repeat that idea of what rules are for was know to everyone before event and rule of using proper language existed. I hope that no more explanations are needed here.

Quote:
May I ask why admins read transfer notes without the senders being made aware they were not private communications?

Let me start from another question: is what you type on care site public or private? Some people might want it private some want it public. If I read what people type do I violate right to privacy as there is no text 'you answer will be further processed' ? and so on.
At this moment things should be more clear:
- mail is (and allways was) your private thing and no admin can access it, unless someone sends it
- short notes are for everyone
- care answer is (sometimes) made public
- transfer notes is read by admins as we check transfers to track multies
- a good start is asuming everything except mail is public


A question from me is: what can be found inside heads of 2 mature people deciding to stir up situation by swear at admins ?
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Miryana 
n00b

Age: 44
Joined: 12 Nov 2010
Posts: 2
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 8:37 am   

Yarold wrote:


A question from me is: what can be found inside heads of 2 mature people deciding to stir up situation by swear at admins ?


Well that is exactly the point, the note was between 2 mature people! It was not done in public and the person who the note was for even wrote that it was about admins in general and not about this site.

So how can you say they tried to stir up the situation, they didnt even get a warning to know they where doing it because they thought the message was private.
 
     
turdkey
[Deleted]

Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:45 am   

Surely Yarold if those people had known their post was public, something you admit was not made clear, then they would obviously taken actions different from those they did.

More fitting would have been a warning to those involved and then posting the rule change/clarification. The recipient states no names were mentioned so the punishment had to also be based on an assumed insult to one of your admins. Or are you saying the admim who assumed they were insulted recognised something in the insult that could only pertain to them.

Now my mind boggles trying to imagine what actions could have prompted this behaviour.

Sorry to be trying to nail this down to specifics but one of your admins did inform me once I "wasn't too clued up as to what actually goes on around here" To that admin, please don't take that as an insult I am just trying to give Yarold some insight into my questions and inquisitiveness and the naivety that prompts them.
 
     
DemonicJ 
Site Admin
The Mob Emperor


Helped: 9 times
Age: 51
Joined: 13 Jan 2006
Posts: 1541
Location: Australia
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:22 am   

[14:19] <@Ecco> <Jeanne> It was a test to prove that Jay "spy" on every move I make here, I have send my msn log with Tevie (my friend here for 2+ years) where we bet that Jay will be reading it

[14:19] <@Ecco> <Ecco> i wasnt demonicJ i saw it and its against tos to flame against admins


for clarification, it wasn't me that banned Jeanne. I told her the change was coming (increase from 25 to 50 credit transfers. The test transfers then happen were the derogatory remarks were made. She was mailed by myself & pm'd through mirc by ecco.

So assumptions aside for who it was made for, or generalizations at was aimed at admins fro sites not named, I think that answers who & what site it was aimed at.

So for once & for all get the **** off my case & instead aim your anger at the ones doing what they can to **** with what was once a great site
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Last edited by Ecco on Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:30 pm; edited 2 times in total  
 
     
cartes 
Hardcore Gamer

Age: 28
Joined: 24 Jan 2009
Posts: 33
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:19 pm   

Out of subject, Roy

Cartes, do you know how frustrating it is dealing with idiots that spend their time trying to plot against me or the other admins. Instead if the used the same efforts to help develop the site, it could be a much better place?

To quote an earlier remark, the comment obviously wasnt sent between two mature human beings, instead it was sent between two coniving rats
Last edited by DemonicJ on Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:38 pm; edited 2 times in total  
 
     
Ecco 
Site Admin


Age: 57
Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 92
Location: Netherlands
Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:24 pm   

It was a very well coordinated plan to harm someone, thats should not how we humans behave.

end discussion
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